Thursday, 30 March 2017

VIII Quora : What do the Islamic 99 names and the Catholic Rosary have to do with self-hypnosis?

Q I asked
What do the Islamic 99 names and the Catholic Rosary have to do with self-hypnosis?

Own comment on Q
In méthode Coué, there is an “I am …” involved in what one is suggesting oneself about. In these two, there is not (unless one speaks of the I Am who revealed Himself to Moses, as to Rosary).

The question is not primarily religious, it is more about what the effects of that would be. Like would the fact of NOT concentrating on one’s OWN goals be an indirect suggestion of forgetting oneself?

with my comments, in some cases, and except one which involves "Not for Reproduction":

Some of those I asked had been requested to answer, some not. Most I asked have not answered.

Claire-Edith de la Croix,
Ph.D Philosophy of Religion and Theology & Catholicism, Claremont Graduate University (1983)
Written 20h ago
I know nothing about the 99 Names so I can't answer that part of the question.

The Catholic rosary is a meditation, not an excerise in memorization and rote repetition. The rosary is divided into groups of ten beads separated by a large bead; each group of ten beads is called a decade. The traditional rosary consists of fifteen decades and Saint Pope John Paul II proposed another five.

Each decade is named for a particular “mystery” (mysterium in Latin) in salvation history. While repeating the prayers for the beads vocally, we are supposed to meditate on the relevant mystery. The mind remains very active. Nothing to do with self-hypnosis.

The Loyola Press has a list of the twenty mysteries on their site[1].


[1] Mysteries of the Rosary

[Note, I give the link as respecting integrity of her answer, but would not use "The Mysteries of Light"]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Since hypnosis is not just about memorisation, including self hypnosis, I don’t see the point of “not an excerise in memorization and rote repetition.”

You said it is a meditation, on which I agree.

It is also the one I use, as opposed to Muslims using 99 names.

In the 15 mystery version.

Are you aware that meditation is considered akin to self hypnosis in so far as alpha state is induced in a successful instance?

That is one reason behind my question.

Claire-Edith de la Croix
Hello, Hans-Georg.

I am very aware of trance states of various kinds including hypnosis, which was one of the tools I sometimes used in my professional practice. Since my answer is directed to the curious man in the street, I chose appropriate vocabulary. To most laymen the words trance and hypnosis evoke different ideas. This is not a technical or professional article.

Is there something more general about the answer that's bothering you?

Sr. Claire-Édith

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Well, I am not “the curious man in the street”, I do have some technical vocabulary.

Also, I think you are perhaps by “chosing appropriate vocabulary” withholding some of your actual knowledge from the man in the street.

If you are a professional practitioner, I don’t see how you could associate self hypnosis with “an excerise in memorization and rote repetition” which you say the Rosary is not.

There IS if you like “rote repetition” (I’ll have to look the word up, but insofar as I understand it) in the Rosary and for mysteries there is also that in at least II Method of St Grignon de Montfort - which is popular among German speaking Catholics, the one I use.

… and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus, who rose from the dead, Holy Mary, Mother of God … (with each Hail Mary in that decade, replace with “who ascended to Heaven” for second one, and so on).

And the Rosary is therefore an excellent way or recalling these precise 15 mysteries, and also, using the cycle:

Joyful - Monday, Thursday
Sorrowful - Tuesday, Friday
Glorious - Wednesday, Saturday
(various solutions for Sunday, including all three same day)

it is an excellent way to recall what weekday it is, even if you don’t have newspapers telling you that.

But since hypnosis is clearly used for many various other purposes than to enhance memory at language learning or whatever, I don’t get the point you were making in your first sentence.

Or if you meant NLP, are you sure the mysteries and the associated fruits (for which we ask God) may not have an effect similar to personalised NLP?

I think it can, like the psalms, and that is one way in which praying the Rosary makes you a good Christian.

Claire-Edith de la Croix
Wait a second… is it you who wrote the original question? If so, I've been particularly dense and I did not understand the wording of your question.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Correct for first part, you know best for second part.

LL deMerle
Claire-Edith, I once read an article which claimed that studies showed praying the rosary to have benefits for the heart.

Claire-Edith de la Croix
Not surprising. In general, meditation and contemplation can be very relaxing. But that's a far cry fro a trance.

LL deMerle

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Not sure if you are aware “trance” varies in depth.

II, Requested
Dorothy M Neddermeyer
Ph.D., Certified Hypnosis and Time-line Practitioner. 30+ years experience.
Written 20h ago
Any form of concentration to the exclusion of other distractions or input serves to induce or enhance a trance state. While the number of beads have a purpose for each religious faith, the number of beads also has a purpose of conditioning people to engage in the practice of concentration—i.e. trance state—for shorter or longer periods of time.


[diagram with Greek hupnos, sleep + English -osis giving in late 19th C hypnosis - actually, ending -osis is also Greek]

late 19th century: from Greek hupnos ‘sleep’ + -osis.

The mind goes into a trance state periodically during awake hours. Hypnosis became the word to identify a process of someone inducing a deeper trance state than one generally goes into periodically during awake hours. After inducing a trance state the facilitator can process information from the unconscious mind, which creates a cathartic and healing effect.

If you have questions contact me. I am here only to be truly helpful.

III Requested
Michael DeBusk
Hypnotist since 1993
Written 12h ago
I am completely unfamiliar with both Catholic and Islamic ritual, so I can't speak to the ones you asked about.

I can only say that rituals of this kind function as trance inductions. They have a unique quality in that they set a particular direction for your nervous system to follow.

I wish I knew more about these specific rituals.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
“I can only say that rituals of this kind function as trance inductions.”

I consider this as being so too.

Also, St Thomas Aquinas proves that Downs’ syndromers can truly pray by the fact they can truly enter into a trance during a prayer.

I was thinking about the difference from méthode Coué, which was inspired by the rosary, since in méthode Coué, the person entering the trance is visualising something about himself, in the Rosary something about Jesus or Mary or both - that is, about persons transcending his own.

The own person is during the trance more in the background (present as in “pray for us sinners” or as in reason for praying the rosary, which often involves sth personal : but even so, in the background, while main thing remains sth other than he and his own qualities either desires or to be overcome).

How do you think that would make a difference?

Alan Piper
Wise Blue Owl Therapy centre
Written Mon
In sort nothing. The Islamic 99 and catholic rosary are about comiting to memory: self hypnosis can help with improving the memory for may things. But there is nothing connecting either in any spritaual or religious sense.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
If you noted my own comment, I was actually saying I was asking about technical from a mentalist point of view.

A repeated and well known short message is consumed under alpha state of some degree … what is, from the purely technical, not religious, point of view the difference and similarity?

Does it matter that in Coué one is dealing with a personalised message which is adressed to one’s personal self, while in prayer one is dealing with a one size fits all message which is adressed to attention on and adress to someone other than self?

Shawn Bell
works at Startup Founders and Entrepreneurs
Written Mon

Update 3.IV.2017
More answers

Answer requested by Hans-Georg Lundahl

Sherry W,
Written Wed
Nothin really, unless you use them as way to hypnotize your self.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Well, and doesn’t one when praying?

Answer requested by Hans-Georg Lundahl

Derry Cooke
Certified hypnotherapist in private practice since 2015.
Written Wed

Focus, belief, desire, imagination, repetition… These are the essentials of hypnosis and religious practice.

I'm not saying religious practice is hypnosis but it absolutely includes hypnotic elements.

Answer requested by Hans-Georg Lundahl

Diana Laskaris
works at Impact, LLC
Written Fri
Upvoted by Chrysovalantis Anastasiades
Interesting question. I don’t think that there’s a direct correlation if that’s what you’re asking. However, when one goes into a deeply meditative, focused state, such as one might do while reciting the Catholic Rosary or the Islamic 99, they could be inducing a light trance, which would be like self-hypnosis. The difference being that in hypnosis, generally one is trying to provide positive suggestions for behavioral or other change, while the purpose of the rosary or 99 is generally to focus on a prayerful or meditative state. The similarity would be in the focused attention and repetition that both states engage.


Hans-Georg Lundahl
No, the purpose of the rosary is not to focus on one’s state, it is to focus on what the 15 mysteries have to say about Jesus and Mary.

Which would perhaps work out like suggestions, not about oneself this time, but about someone else and better - which could be good for the self to focus on while forgetting (at least for moments) oneself.

To other thread

Ellen Roepert
recreational hypnotist and subject
Written Jan 12
[omitted since on other thread]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mar 28
Would you also like to answer this one, I am out of requests?

What do the Islamic 99 names and the Catholic Rosary have to do with self-hypnosis?
[Link to this quora question]

Ellen Roepert
Mar 29
Nothing. Catholicism and selfhypnosis are not related.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mar 29
OK … trance states do not occur in religion?

Ellen Roepert
Mar 29
Trance states occur in religion, and in daily life. Hypnosis is just one possible trance state, and a very specific one. Other trance states are very common.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mar 29
AH, ok, you mean that trance while praying the Rosary is another type of trance than self hypnosis?

Perhaps a valid point, but does not mean they have nothing to do with each other.

Ellen Roepert
Mar 29
Exactly, the trance a praying person may experience has nothing to do with hypnosis.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mar 29
If it is a trance, it has at least one thing in common with self hypnosis.

Ellen Roepert
Mar 29
Reading a book and driving a car are also trance.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mar 29
Yes, but less deep than praying the Rosary.

In reading a book you are ready for new things coming on, in the Rosary you are already dealing with scenarios where the words have been cut down to essentials known beforehand.

Driving a car involves always being ready to get out of and redirect the trance, if needed.

In the Rosary you are also repeating words over and over again.

Ellen Roepert
Mar 29
I think you misunderstand what trance is. Trance is not being unaware of your surroundings or unable to take action immediately. Trance is simply focused attention.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Mar 29
Which you have in the Rosary too.

Trance involves focussing attention onto things and therefore involves focussing attention off things.

In the Rosary you are more focussed off things other than what you are focussing on than in car driving or book reading.

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